How did Karan Trapper trap Arjun Singh

Exerpts from a CNN-IBN interview


Karan Thapar: Most of the people would accept that steps are necessary to help the OBCs gain greater access to higher education. The real question is: Why do you believe that reservations is the best way of doing this?
Arjun Singh: I wouldn't like to say much more on this because these are decisions that are taken not by individuals alone. And in this case, the entire Parliament of this country - almost with rare unanimity - has decided to take this decision.

"Parliament has taken a view and it has taken a decision, I am a servant of Parliament and I will only implement"

Karan Thapar: Except that Parliament is not infallible. In the Emergency, when it amended the Constitution, it was clearly wrong, it had to reverse its own amendments. So, the question arises: Why does Parliament believe that the reservation is the right way of helping the OBCs?
Arjun Singh: Nobody is infallible. But Parliament is Supreme and at least I, as a Member of Parliament, cannot but accept the supremacy of Parliament.
Karan Thapar: No doubt Parliament is supreme, but the Constitutional amendment that gives you your authorities actually enabling amendment, it is not a compulsory requirement. Secondly, the language of the amendment does not talk about reservations, the language talks about any provision by law for advancement of socially and educationally backward classes. So, you could have chosen anything other than reservations, why reservations?
Arjun Singh: Because as I said, that was the 'will and desire of the Parliament'.
Karan Thapar: Do you personally also, as Minister of Human Resource Development, believe that reservations is the right and proper way to help the OBCs?
Arjun Singh: Certainly, that is one of the most important ways to do it.
Karan Thapar: The right way?
Arjun Singh: Also the right way.
Karan Thapar: In which case, lets ask a few basic questions. We are talking about the reservations for the OBCs in particular. Do you know what percentage of the Indian population is OBC? Mandal puts it at 52 per cent, the National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO) at 32 per cent, the National Family and Health Survey at 29.8 per cent, which is the correct figure?
Arjun Singh: I think that should be decided by people who are more knowledgeable. But the point is that the OBCs form a fairly sizeable percentage of our population.
Karan Thapar: No doubt, but the reason why it is important to know 'what percentage' they form is that if you are going to have reservations for them, then you must know what percentage of the population they are, otherwise you don't know whether they are already adequately catered to in higher educational institutions or not.
Arjun Singh: That is obvious - they are not.
Karan Thapar: Why is it obvious?
Arjun Singh: Obvious because it is something which we all see.
Karan Thapar: Except for the fact that the NSSO, which is a government appointed body, has actually in its research in 1999 - which is the most latest research shown - that 23.5 per cent of all university seats are already with the OBCs. And that is just 8.5 per cent less than what the NSSO believes is the OBC share of the population. So, for a difference of 8 per cent, would reservations be the right way of making up the difference?
Arjun Singh: I wouldn't like to go behind all this because, as I said, Parliament has taken a view and it has taken a decision, I am a servant of Parliament and I will only implement.
Karan Thapar: Absolutely, Parliament has taken a view, I grant it. But what people question is the simple fact - Is there a need for reservations? If you don't know what percentage of the country is OBC and if, furthermore, the NSSO is correct in pointing out that already 23.5 per cent of the college seats are with the OBC, then you don't have a case in terms of need.
Arjun Singh: College seats, I don't know.
Karan Thapar: According to the NSSO - which is a government appointed body - 23.5 per cent of the college seats are already with the OBCs.
Arjun Singh: What do you mean by college seats?
Karan Thapar: University seats, seats of higher education.
Arjun Singh: Well, I don't know I have not come across that so far.
Karan Thapar: So, when critics say to you that you don't have a case for reservation in terms of need, what do you say to them?
Arjun Singh: I have said what I had to say and the point is that that is not an issue for us to now debate.
Karan Thapar: You mean the chapter is now closed?
Arjun Singh: The decision has been taken.
Karan Thapar: Regardless of whether there is a need or not, the decision is taken and it is a closed chapter.
Arjun Singh: So far as I can see, it is a closed chapter and that is why I have to implement what all Parliament has said.

"So far as I can see, it is a closed chapter and that is why I have to implement what all Parliament has said"

Karan Thapar: Minister, it is not just in terms of 'need' that your critics question the decision to have reservation for OBCs in higher education. More importantly, they question whether reservations themselves are efficacious and can work.
For example, a study done by the IITs themselves shows that 50 per cent of the IIT seats for the SCs and STs remain vacant, and for the remaining 50 per cent, 25 per cent are the candidates who even after six years fail to get their degrees. So, clearly, in their case, reservations are not working.
Arjun Singh: I would only say that on this issue, it would not be correct to go by all these figures that have been paraded.
Karan Thapar: You mean the IIT figures themselves could be dubious?
Arjun Singh: Not dubious, but I think that is not the last word.
Karan Thapar: All right, maybe the IIT may not be the last word, let me then quote to you the report of the Parliamentary Committee on the welfare for the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes - that is a Parliamentary body.
It says, that looking at the Delhi University, between 1995 and 2000, just half the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Castes level and just one-third of the seats for under-graduates at the Scheduled Tribes level were filled. All the others went empty, unfilled. So, again, even in Delhi University, reservations are not working.
Arjun Singh: If they are not working, it does not mean that for that reason we don't need them. There must be some other reason why they are not working and that can be certainly probed and examined. But to say that for this reason, 'no reservations need to be done' is not correct.
Karan Thapar: Fifty years after the reservations were made, statistics show, according to The Hindustan Times, that overall in India, only 16 per cent of the places in higher education are occupied by SCs and STs. The quota is 22.5 per cent, which means that only two-thirds of the quota is occupied. One-third is going waste, it is being denied to other people.
Arjun Singh: As I said, the kind of figures that have been brought out, in my perception, do not reflect the realities. Realities are something much more and, of course, there is an element of prejudice also.
Karan Thapar: But these are figures that come from a Parliamentary Committee. It can't be prejudiced; they are your own colleagues.
Arjun Singh: Parliamentary Committee has given the figures, but as to why this has not happened, that is a different matter.
Karan Thapar: I put it to you that you don't have a case for reservations in terms of need, you don't have a case for reservations in terms of their efficacy, why then, are you insisting on extending them to the OBCs?
Arjun Singh: I don't want to use that word, but I think that your argument is basically fallacious.
Karan Thapar: But it is based on all the facts available in the public domain.
Arjun Singh: Those are facts that need to be gone into with more care. What lies behind those facts, why this has not happened, that is also a fact.
Karan Thapar: Let?s approach the issue of reservations differently in that case. Reservations mean that a lesser-qualified candidate gets preference over a more qualified candidate, solely because in this case, he or she happens to be an OBC. In other words, the upper castes are being penalised for being upper caste.
Arjun Singh: Nobody is being penalised and that is a factor that we are trying to address. I think that the Prime Minister will be talking to all the political parties and will be putting forward a formula, which will see that nobody is being penalised.
Karan Thapar: I want very much to talk about that formula, but before we come to talk about how you are going to address concerns, let me point one other corollary: Reservations also gives preference and favour to caste over merit. Is that acceptable in a modern society?
Arjun Singh: I don't think the perceptions of modern society fit India entirely.
Karan Thapar: You mean India is not a modern society and therefore can't claim to be treated as one?
Arjun Singh: It is emerging as a modern society, but the parameters of a modern society do not apply to large sections of the people in this country.
Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you Jawaharlal Nehru, a man whom you personally admire enormously. On the 27th of June 1961 wrote to the Chief Ministers of the day as follows: I dislike any kind of reservations. If we go in for any kind of reservations on communal and caste basis, we will swamp the bright and able people and remain second-rate or third-rate. The moment we encourage the second-rate, we are lost. And then he adds pointedly: This way lies not only folly, but also disaster. What do you say to Jawaharlal Nehru today?
Arjun Singh: Jawaharlal Nehru was a great man in his own right and not only me, but everyone in India accept his view.
Karan Thapar: But you are just about to ignore his advice.
Arjun Singh: No. Are you aware that it was Jawaharlal Nehru who introduced the first amendment regarding OBCs?

"I don't think the perceptions of modern society fit India entirely. It is emerging as a modern society, but the parameters of a modern society do not apply to large sections of the people in this country"

Karan Thapar: Yes, and I am talking about Jawaharlal Nehru in 1961, when clearly he had changed his position, he said, ?I dislike any kind of reservations?.
Arjun Singh: I don't think one could take Pandit ji 's position at any point of time and then overlook what he had himself initiated.
Karan Thapar: Am I then to understand that regardless of the case that is made against reservations in terms of need, regardless of the case that has been made against reservations in terms of efficacy, regardless of the case that has been made against reservations in terms of Jawaharlal Nehru, you remain committed to extending reservations to the OBCs.
Arjun Singh: I said because that is the will of Parliament. And I think that common decisions that are taken by Parliament have to be honoured.
Karan Thapar: Let me ask you a few basic questions. If reservations are going to happen for the OBCs in higher education, what percentage of reservations are we talking about?
Arjun Singh: No, that I can't say because that has yet to be decided.
Karan Thapar: Could it be less than 27 per cent?
Arjun Singh: I can't say anything on that, I have told you in the very beginning that at this point of time it is not possible for me to.
Karan Thapar: Quite right. If you can't say, then that also means that the figure has not been decided.
Arjun Singh: The figure will be decided, it has not been decided yet.
Karan Thapar: The figure has not been decided. So, therefore the figure could be 27, but it could be less than 27, too?
Arjun Singh: I don't want to speculate on that because as I said, that is a decision which will be taken by Parliament.
Karan Thapar: Whatever the figure, one thing is certain that when the reservations for OBCs happen, the total quantum of reservations will go up in percentage terms. Will you compensate by increasing the total number of seats in colleges, universities, IITs and IIMs so that the other students don't feel deprived.
Arjun Singh: That is one of the suggestions that has been made and is being seriously considered.
Karan Thapar: Does it find favour with you as a Minister for Human Resource Development?
Arjun Singh: Whatever suggestion comes, we are committed to examine it.
Karan Thapar: You may be committed to examine it, but do you as minister believe that that is the right way forward?
Arjun Singh: That could be one of the ways, but not the only way.
Karan Thapar: What are the other ways?
Arjun Singh: I don't know. That is for the Prime Minister and the other ministers to decide.
Karan Thapar: One way forward would be to increase the total number of seats.
Arjun Singh: Yes, definitely.

So,we can hope for it ,right?

Meeting with a fellow creature

Today I had my morning tea from the farmacy in our campus.Since a table and some chairs were there outside the shop and nobody was occupying the seat,I thought it'd be better to sit there and relax for some time.Do I need to mention that I was alone?.some girls from the neighbouring hostel was there in the shop and I could see more people coming through the road.
After having my tea I droped the cup there in the ground itself as a normal Indian .

Suddenly a dog caught my attention.I dont know if the term 'dog' is the right one(But it was a small dog and its strange for me to use words like puppy).The dog was running towards my cup. He(gender is a guess) put his head into the cup .He tried to clean the cup though nothing was inside it.A face resembling like a sad human face came out of the cup.Yes,surely it would not have gotten its breakfast.probably,in the previous day too .After the first failed attempt,it satrted scanning throught the ground and licking the things which appeared like food to him(if you felt offended by the word 'licking' ,I am sorry,but it was doing so).but sadly not even a piece of bread was there in the ground.The only thing it got was some dead insects.With deep sorrow ,it gave a look at me.But the social animal in me was not kind enough to buy some food for that poor creature.

I watched the whole drama with a cruel sympathy.Perhaps thinking like ,one good thing done in a moment would not make you Gandhi throught the life.And when I thought over it again ,I recalled the Indian ideology of reincarnation.

And who knows,in the next life I may be in the dog's place and the dog may be in my seat ...

Can we change the soceity?

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world: indeed it's the only thing that ever has!
-Margaret Mead

You must be the change that you want to see in the world.
-Mahtma Gandhi

Many, will laugh when they see a subject like this,because there are some beliefs which indeed got deep rooted among people's mind.Obviously,the answer to the subject will be a big emphatic "NO" by most of the people since evreybody has forced to believe that they are not that all important in the society. We can put it in another way - most of us believe that a single person can not change the world.But as quoted by somebody "each and every moment you spent were your opportunity to change the world".

Today I spoke with senthil arumugam(for knowing more about him "click ") and that was the reason for me to spend some time on this topic.Even though I was knowing only a little about his organization he spent time to gather comments from the maximum and hence I too had to share my thoughts with him.

Many issues are there in our planet which could be or should be resolved .It can be categorized into different groups.I think,we can classify the issues mainly into two types.

Enviornmental Issues:Issues such as the usage of plastics,pollution,waste disposal etc..

Social issues:Issues like food,shelter,dress,education etc...

Since all these issues have categories and subcategories it is highly unlikely for any person or any group to eradicate any of these issue completely from a region (not from the whole world). We can find the traces of all of these issues everywhere, but it may vary from region to region. So it all matters with the particular area where we are keeping focus into and the number of people whom we can associate with the plan.

Education:
I need not mention that education plays a crucial role in the overall personality of a person. According to a newspaper, many people in Bihar still believe that a king called Jawaharlal Nehru rules India. God’s grace! They at least know that India is being ruled by Indians.Let’s take the example of the so-called ‘banjares’ whose tents can be seen near almost every every towns of India.They might be doing various jobs. We can see most of them as the creators of wonderful statues. Some of them will be artists ,some of them will be singers.Some might even be thieves.

It is a common visual in an town that a boy carrying some statues or mats and knocking the gates of every home he sees. They do not feel election or OBC reservation as issues. They are not even going to the schools (though there is a law which ensures it). So, why should they bother about the reservations in IITs and AIIMS? .Since every human being spends considerable time for thoughts, what would be their thoughts? What would be their dreams?......who cares?

How can we bring them to the mainstream?

We can still see lots of children doing their work in hotels, shops etc. What is the probability for a beggar’s children getting proper education? They may not have been associated with a proper state. If today they are in Tamilnadu,by tomorrow they might be in another state. Suppose a group of dedicated people launched a plan to educate these children, by forcing them to attend the class or with the help of the authorities. Won’t they face challenges from the class, which they belong to. Surely they will. But all depends on the nature and the strength of the program, which is launched. According to communist manifesto there are only two classes-The upper class burgeous, and the lower class proletariat.
But is it so? The class, which I spoke about, is indeed out of these three. They are not bothering about the social set up.

They simply live...

Active participation: This is the solution for all the issues. Every human being despite of his profession should participate in the society actively. It does not matter whether he/she is an engineer, begger, shopkeeper or whatever he/she may be. If everybody started participating in this beautiful harmony of social life without considering them as a separate entity ,do we feel all these sorrows?

(We can even write a book but time is not permitting me to continue with this topic.....may be continued later)

Motivation is everything. You can do the work of two people, but you can't be two people. Instead, you have to inspire the next guy down the line and get him to inspire his people. (Quote is not mine)

Quote of the day

Some people like my advice so much that they frame it up on the wall instead of using it.
-Gordon R.Dickson

Gordon Rupert Dickson (November 1, 1923 – January 31, 2001) was a Canadian science fiction author. Although he was born in Canada, he spent most of his life in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is probably most famous for his Childe Cycle books. He won three Hugo awards.

Mandal Revisited !!!!

Is reservation the best way to ensure the enlistment of the backward classes? That is the hot topic now. Yesterday from the bus I saw a poster at the bus stand, which describes the Aiims students as followers of Manu.
Was Manu that bad? Thoughts started rushing into my mind.

I know Manu is the name that is being misused in most of the cast based political stunts. And the funniest think is that,not many people know who exactly was Manu. They know only some sentences from manusmrithi such as "na sthree swathanthryam arhasi".

Since manusmrithi and Manu himself is a huge subject I am not trying to dig it more. Lets take it for another day. Here the important issue is reservations. The 27 percentage of reservation for OBC added with 22.5 % SC/ST seats would make a huge total of 49.5 % of seats of reservation. Can this be justified?

Let's try to summarize the major points, which supports reservation and oppose reservation.

* The depressed classes became so because of the depression, which persisted over centuries.
* 50 years of reservation is not sufficient to bring them back to the mainstream.
* The backward classes are still backward only.

The youth for equality movement by the AIIMS students which got some support from the intelligentsia opposes these arguments by saying .

* Merit will get back seated.
* Reservation will affect the quality of the premier institutions and eventually will also affect the country.
* Cast system, which is considered as the root of all the evils will again come back to the mainstream and cast based politics will gain momentum.

An independent observer can see valid arguments by both sides.But one think we can easily see that reservation had not done the desired effect so far.

Anyway as of now there is no sign of a full stop for the reservation scheme as any decision against it may hit a blow on the precious vote bank.

Out of topic: "yathra naryasthu poojyanthe.Thathra devatham ramanthe" : Manusmrithi

Quote of the day

All paid jobs absorbs and degrades mind
-Aristotle

I too created a blog

I wonder why didn't I do this before.May be due to my lack of knowledge about the creative possibilities of a blog .I think, I had been carrying that feeling in my subconscious that ablog cannot be marketed and it's a sheer wastage of time.
But I am reconsidering it.As a first step ,I created this and this will be the echo of my charecter,thoughts and everything(I hope..).If not ,what's the need of keeping a blog like this?